This Weeks Bread

This week I am again trying a recipe that I have converted from yeasted to sourdough. It is based on King Arthur’s Vermont Whole Wheat Oatmeal Honey Bread (I have no affiliation with them). I am using 70 grams of 100% hydration starter to replace 1 teaspoon of instant yeast. I decided to use the starter just before it was refreshed for the day. This has always been a favorite sandwich and toasting bread of ours but it’s a long time since I’ve made it.

The dough after kneading

I’ve mixed the dough and it came out way stiffer than it should have. Soft dough = soft bread. I added an extra 20 grams of water and kneaded it in and now the dough feels much better. Still a little stiffer than I would like, but I don’t want to go too far. For flour I am using King Arthur Organic All Purpose and King Arthur White Whole Wheat. Since I made the switch to the organic all purpose flour earlier this week for my starter I noticed the starter was a little stiffer. I am guessing that the organic is absorbing more water than the regular all purpose. Also, the rolled oats could absorb a different amount of water from batch to batch.

The Formula

Ingredient Amount Bakers %
Boiling Water *454 g70%
Rolled Oats99 g15%
Brown Sugar106 g16%
Honey21 g3.2%
Butter57 g8.7%
Cinnamon 6.8 g1%
Salt13 g2%
White Whole Wheat Flour170 g26%
All Purpose Flour482 g74%
Total Flour652 g100%
Starter70 g11%

“*” Added additional 20 grams room temp water after mixing

My Process

  1. Weigh out ingredients.
  2. Bring water to boil.
  3. In a large bowl add rolled oats, brown sugar, butter, and honey. Pour over boiling water and stir.
  4. Let cool 30 minutes.
  5. Mix together the flours, cinnamon and salt in a bowl.
  6. Slowly add and mix flour mixture into cooled water mixture.
  7. Knead into smooth satiny dough.
  8. Transfer dough to a greased, covered container.
  9. Bulk ferment dough 10 to 12 hours or until dough has become puffy and less sticky to the touch.
  10. Remove dough from container and divide into two equal pieces.
  11. Pre-shape dough and let rest on surface for 20 to 30 minutes.
  12. Final shape dough and place in greased 4-1/4 X 8-1/2 bread pans.
  13. Cover dough loosely with greased plastic wrap.
  14. Place covered bread pans in refrigerator to proof overnight.
  15. The next morning remove from the fridge and let sit on the counter until dough is domed 1” above the top of the pan. (Took 7 hours, only got to top of pan. Dough was still cold to touch even after spending 3 hours in proofer at 75 F.)
  16. Preheat the oven to 350 F.
  17. Put both loaves in oven. Bake 25 minutes, cover with aluminum foil to prevent over browning.
  18. Bake an additional 10 to 15 minutes.
  19. Remove from oven and let cool on a rack before slicing.

Loaves ended up with good oven spring. Height of loaves was good but I need to improve on making uniform loaves when forming and putting in the pans.

The finished loaves

The flavor is great just like I remembered, though a bit sweeter than I remembered. Texture and crumb are also very nice.

The sliced loaf

So, what will I change when I make this again? First and foremost the process. I took forever, seemingly, for the dough to warm up after taking it out of the fridge. If I make the dough early in the day like I did this time then I will retard the dough in the fridge during bulk fermentation. The dough will come out of the fridge before bed to finish bulk fermentation on the counter overnight. The morning it will be divided, shaped and proofed, all at room temperature.

Second, I am going to scale up the recipe in hopes of filling the bread pans out better. I will also increase the water slightly more than this time possibly an additional 10 to 15 grams or a total of 35 grams more than the recipe calls for.

This is a good whole wheat bread for sandwiches, paninis and toasting. It will be in my regular bread making rotation.

Our Weekly Bread

This post will be different in that I am covering two weeks worth of bread for a variety of reasons. Primary because I have covered both before and there were only subtle changes in each. I also have not felt that great and not been up to posting.

For our first weeks bread I am again making rye bread from the same recipe as before with a couple of changes. First I have doubled the recipe to make two loaves. Next I made a rye starter (converted from my normal starter) and used that to make an overnight rye leaven. Finally, I didn’t have any oranges to zest so I used Meyer lemons.

One of the rye loaves

This I documented the rye starter in a post earlier this week so I won’t cover that again. I did decide not to keep the rye starter going. I did not find any improvement in flavor to justify using a separate rye starter. I also will make sure to have oranges on hand the next I make this bread as their absence was noticeable.

The leaven was made by measuring out 10 grams of the rye starter into 70 grams of water and mixing it in thoroughly. Then 35 grams each of AP and whole rye flour were added to the water and mixed in. The leaven then sat on the counter for 12 hours before being mixed into the dough.

The Formula

Ingredient AmountBakers %
The Leaven
Rye Starter10 g14%
Water70 g100%
AP Flour35 g50%
Whole Rye Flour35 g50%
The Dough
Leaven140 g14%
Water800 g83%
Bread Flour490 g50%
Whole Rye Flour 490 g50%
Tot Flour980 g100%
Molasses88 g9%
Fennel Seed16 g1.6%
Anise Seed4 g0.4%
Caraway Seed6 g0.6%
Salt20 g2%
Zest of Meyer Lemon2

The process was the same as before so I won’t bore you with that again. The results were great and again we enjoyed some Rueben sandwiches. For the corned beef this time I cooked it in our sous vide and it turned out delicious. We soaked it for a couple of hours to get out some of the salt. Then it was dried off and seasoned with a couple or tablespoons of freshly ground black pepper and vacuum sealed and refrigerated overnight. The next morning the sous vide was preheated to 180 F. Once it was up to temperature the corned beef went in for 10 hours. When the 10 hours were up the sealed bag with the corned beef went into an ice bath to stop the cooking. Then into the fridge until we were ready to slice for sandwiches. We were able to slice this nice and thin and it was one of the most tender corned beefs we have made.

Rye loaf structure

The next weeks bread was again the Tartine Country Sourdough Loaf. This was two loaves of the original formula with one minor change. I have always thought it made no sense to make the leaven twice the size as going to be used in the bread. So this time I used 11 grams of starter, 100 grams of water and 100 grams or my AP and white whole wheat flour mix and used the whole leaven in the dough. Sharp observers might note the the formula only calls for 200 grams of starter and I made 211 grams. I have discovered that between what is lost as CO2 as the starter ferments overnight and what sticks in the bowl I lose about 10 grams of starter.

Preshape dough during 20 minute rest

My results were different to prior results with this recipe. The bread had much more of a sour flavor. I was surprised to say the least as this has been so consistent in the past. I don’t know if it was the change to the leaven or the fact that the kitchen was a little warmer now that the weather has finally changed and there was more activity during bulk fermentation. The structure and rise in the oven were both very good so I am thinking it was the change to the leaven.

The baked loaves

The next time I make this recipe I will go back to the original leaven formula, check the results, and report in that post.

Structure of the Country Sourdough Loaf

This bread was by no means bad and in fact had more flavor. It’s just that we prefer a milder loaf.

I just realized I never posted the original formula and process. I will post the formula and my process the next time I make this bread. In the meantime, it is available online from many sources, just Google “Tartine Bread” and you’ll find lots of links.

Now that I am feeling better I hope I can get back on track for future posts.

What to do with Discard Starter

One of the questions I often get asked is what can you do with discard starter other than throw it in the trash or compost bin. The quick answer is any recipe that calls for a commercial leavening agent, yeast, baking powder or baking soda in addition to sourdough. In most cases the sourdough is there for flavor and the yeast or other agent for the leavening. That includes many of King Arthur’s “sourdough” recipes that call for as much yeast as a non-sourdough recipe. Call me a bread snob but I don’t consider them sourdough. To me, sourdoughs are completely naturally leavened and those hybrid breads are sourdough flavored yeasted breads.

One of our favorite uses for discarded starter are overnight pancakes and waffles. These are yummy! We use the same batter for both but prefer the waffles to the pancakes. Something about the crispy outside of the waffle with the soft interior that delights us. Plus the recipe makes more waffles that we can eat in one sitting but they freeze well and reheat beautifully in the toaster. I should add our waffle maker makes conventional waffles, not Belgian waffles, so I can’t speak with authority on how they would come out.

From freezer to toaster, with Kerrygold butter and Stoney Ridge Farms Dark Maple Syrup

I usually start saving my daily discard starter in a bowl in the fridge about 5 days before we plan on making waffles. I haven’t tested how long this will remain viable in the fridge but I imagine several weeks at least. I’ve had it there for 2 weeks with no deterioration. If it is being used on a regular basis then you can add discard each day and take some out a couple of times a week. I always stir the new addition into the batch but I’m not sure that is necessary.

I apologize in advance for the mixed units in the formula. Normally, that would drive me nuts, but for what ever reason, in this case it doesn’t.

The Formula

*IngredientAmount
Butter1/2 Cup
Milk1 Cup
Sourdough Starter *258 grams
Salt1 teaspoon
Brown Sugar1 tablespoon
AP flour213 grams
Eggs2
Baking Soda1/4 teaspoon

*This is what one cup of my stirred down discard starter weighed. Yours may be different. I specified grams because I found it very messy a difficult to measure out one cup of starter and keep it from dripping everywhere in the kitchen.

The Process

  1. Place the butter and milk in a microwave safe bowl and microwave on high for one minute.
  2. Remove and stir until butter is dissolved. This may need an another 15 – 20 seconds in the microwave.
  3. Let cool slightly, then stir in the sourdough starter, salt, brown sugar and flour.
  4. Cover with plastic wrap and let ferment at room temperature overnight, 8 – 14 hours.
  5. The next morning add the eggs and baking soda to the batter and mix in.
  6. Preheat the waffle iron or griddle and cook the waffles or pancakes.

I like these with a good butter and pure New York State maple syrup like the dark syrup from Stoney Ridge Farms in Farmington, NY. We went past last Thursday and the steam was pouring from the sugar shack. Always a good sight to see in early Spring.

I plan on trying several other uses for discard sourdough in the future and reporting on them here. A couple of them are biscuits and flour tortillas. Keep watching.

Starter Update

As of yesterday, I am now maintaining two starters. The first is the starter I have been using since the beginning of this blog. The new one is a rye starter.

To make the rye starter I took 20 grams of the original starter and mixed in 80 grams of water and 80 grams of whole grain rye from Hodgson Mills (I have no affiliation with them).

What prompted this was a comment from my wife that we have a corned beef in the fridge that is approaching its use by/freeze by date and what are we going to do with it. My answer, of course is to cook it and make reubens. They require rye bread and when I made the rye bread a few weeks ago I thought I should try a rye starter to make rye bread so here we are.

Before resfreshment, day 2

So far, this is turning out to be an amazingly thick, dry starter. At the end of day one it is like a thick, dry porridge. Not quite what I expected.

This rye flour absorbs a lot of water. I sort of knew that from the bread recipe that calls for 83% hydration.

After discard, day 2, about 30 grams remaining

I’ll have to see when I make the dough but I may need to add extra water to compensate for how dry the starter is. We will see in 5 days.

After refreshment, day 2, you can see how stiff the starter

The corned beef will also be interesting as the plan is to cook it sous vide for 10 hours at 180F. We have not cooked one sous vide before so that too will be interesting.

As far as the rye starter we will see if I decide to continue to maintain it after this week. It will depend on how the bread turns out. I have also recently learned about a company that sells starters from around the world. These include France, Italy, several middle eastern countries and of most interest to me Russia. That is a rye starter that is supposed to be good for making one of my favorite breads, Russian black bread. We’ll see where all this leads me.

This Weeks Bread

We will be doing something a little different this week, sourdough crust pizza. I’ve never done this before so it could be interesting. I had too many doctor appointments this week to make bread so I thought this could be a quicker alternative.

The dough, waiting to be formed into crusts

First decision was what to use for flour. I wanted to get a crispy crust as opposed to a New York style crust that folds. In the end I chose to use a mix of Caputo 00 flour and King Arthur All Purpose flour (I have no affiliation with either company). Next decision was to decide on hydration level. From the research I did I learned that 00 flour doesn’t absorb as much water a domestic flours, so 60% hydration would be appropriate. AP flour could go 70% or more. In the end I arbitrarily decided 65% hydration. Next was how much olive oil to add. I wasn’t sure how the addition of a fat would impact sourdough since I hadn’t done it so fat. I decided to keep it low at just under 5%. I also wasn’t sure how it would effect gluten formation and decided to add after most of the flour was incorporated in the water and starter mix.

The next decision was how much starter. I decided to use the equivalent to one teaspoon of instant yeast 70 grams of starter. The salt was 2% just like any dough.

I should add, my original plan was to make the dough the day before and do an overnight cold ferment in the fridge. That didn’t happen because I had an eye doctor appointment and couldn’t read anything afterwards with my pupils dilated. That meant the dough had to be mixed, fermented, formed, proofed and baked in one day. Not what I planned, but I thought it would work with a small sacrifice of flavor.

The other decision was how much dough do I need. I had hoped to make two 14” crusts. I ended up with two 12” crusts. Research indicated that a 14” crust takes 15 ounces of dough or 30 ounces of dough for two. In grams that would be 850. I decided to go slightly higher and my formula ended up at 885 g. That should have been enough but the dough resisted stretching and kept shrinking back even with several rests to allow the dough to relax. After forming the dough balls I probably should have waited more than 15 minutes before forming the crusts.

Not the roundest crust

The Formula

Ingredient AmountBakers %
100% Hyd. Starter70 g14.7%
Total flour475 g100%
Caputo 00 flour275 g58%
All Purpose flour200 g42%
Water310 g65%
Salt9 g2%
Olive Oil15 g4.8%
Loaded and ready to bake

My Process

  1. Weigh out all ingredients for the dough.
  2. Mix the starter into the water thoroughly.
  3. Mix the two flours together until uniform.
  4. Add the flours to the water mixture one or two handfuls at at time mixing with a danish dough whisk until about 3/4 of the flours are added and a shaggy wet dough has formed.
  5. Add the olive oil to the dough and mix in with dough whisk until thoroughly combined.
  6. Add the remaining flour mixture and mix by hand until all flour is incorporated into the dough.
  7. Cover mixing bowl and let dough rest 20 – 30 minutes.
  8. Add salt to dough and mix by hand until completely incorporated. Salt grains will will still be visible in dough but will disolve and be further mixed into dough with subsequent folds.
  9. Tranfer dough to covered container for bulk fermentation. Bulk fermentation takes roughly 7 hours.
  10. Stretch and fold dough 4 times on 60 minute intervals, then let rest for the remainder of bulk fermentation.
  11. When dough has increased by about 30% in volume and is soft to the touch remove the dough from the container and divide into 2 equal pieces.
  12. Form each half of the dough into a tight round ball. Cover with plastic wrap and let rest 15 minutes.
  13. Place baking stone in oven and preheat oven to 525F on conventional bake (not convection).
  14. Take one dough ball leaving the other covered. Lightly flour a work surface and form into a 12” crust. I used a combination of rolling with a tapered rolling pin and stretching by hand to form and the dough resisted all the way. I let the dough relax several times but still struggled to get to 12”.
  15. Let crust rise a few minutes before topping.
  16. Top crust with favorite toppings. We used sauce, homemade Italian sausage, red onions, sliced black olives, sautéed mushrooms, mozzarella and parmigiana reggiano cheese.
  17. Bake 13 minutes or until crust is lightly browned.
Finished pizza

This turned out delicious. It may be one of the best crusts I’ve made. This surprises me because most of the pizzas I’ve liked best have had a very yeasty crust which this definitely wasn’t. The crust was crispy and didn’t sag with the weight of all the toppings. I really don’t like floppy or crusts that fold.

Closeup of baked crust

There are somethings I will do different the next time. I felt the dough was slightly stiff and fought me when forming the crust. So I will add another 10 grams (to 67%) of water. I will increase the total flour to 500 grams in hopes of getting closer to a 14” pie. I will do the bulk fermentation in the fridge possibly 24 hours but at least overnight.

I will continue to work on this and try to improve it. I will continue to use the Caputo 00 flour as I like it for both pasta and pizza dough. I have some Caputo Semolina on hand so I may try an all Caputo flour crust. Caputo flour comes from Naples Italy so it would be appropriate. Or I may try using the flours used this time in different percentages. Next time however will be the same percentages with the changes documented above.

Ramblings and Observations

I thought for this post I would share some things I have learned so far during this journey. Mainly this will be about what I have discovered about what I like and don’t like and what I have found works for me. I am still experimenting and learning so what I post here could change over time.

First, I’ve discovered I like mild sourdough breads as opposed to “sour” sourdough breads. That means low inoculations of starter and a young leaven. It also means I keep my starter mild by discarding most of it each day and feeding it a lot each day. When I first open my starter each morning it smells very “wheaty”. There is no acidic or sour smell at all. On the rare occasions I have missed a feeding, the next day that sour smell is already there. It also means that my starter stays on the counter and not in the fridge. There are two acids that naturally form in starters, lactic acid and acetic acid. At room temperature mainly lactic acid forms (think milk). At refrigerator temperatures mainly acetic acid forms (think vinegar). That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t store my starter in the fridge if I was going away for a week or two. I would, however, leave it on the counter and refresh it daily for at least a week before baking bread when I got home.

I find I like the flavor of bread with slow fermentation, say 8 hours, compared to a shorter fermentation or 4 hours. Two main factors impact fermentation time. Temperature and how much starter is used. Some of the first sourdough breads I baked called for both a 3+ day old cold fermented pre-ferment plus a large amount of starter in the dough. While the flavor was good, my wife and I prefer the flavor of the Tartine Country Sourdough that gets all of its leavening from an overnight leaven that has a small inoculation of starter. We also prefer it with an 7 or 8 hour fermentation at room temperature, 67F, that a 4 hour fermentation in the proofer at 78F.

My longest fermenting bread dough, so far, was the rye bread I posted a few weeks ago. That went 6 hours in the fridge and 14 hours on the counter. That was also the highest hydration dough I have worked with at 83%. It was awesome tasting.

Bakers percentage is an interesting tool that makes life easier for the baker once they get used to working in grams. It simply refers to the total weight of flour in a formula as 100% and the percentage each other ingredients weight is of the total flour weight.

In the case of Tartine Country Sourdough the total flour is 1000 grams (100%), bread flour 900 grams (90%), Whole Wheat flour (10%), water is 750 grams (75%), leaven is 200 grams (20%) and salt is 20 grams (2%).

Where the percentage also comes in handy is when experimenting with converting a yeasted bread in cups and liquid ounces to a sourdough bread in grams. Once the original recipe is converted to grams, the bakers percentages can then be calculated. From that point a percentage can be chosen for the amount of starter or leaven, say 20%. Take 20% of the flour weight and that is the amount of starter or leaven to use. Either starter or leaven will be 50% flour and 50% water so we now know how many grams of each are in the starter. If we subtract the flour in the starter from the original amount of flour and the grams of water from water in the original recipe we should be left with a dough with the same amount of flour and water with no yeast needed for leavening. Not all yeasted breads can be converted to sourdough but a basic yeast, water, flour and salt recipe without too many other ingredients should work.

The other place knowing the bakers percentages can help is in scaling a recipe. For example, You have a sandwich loaf recipe that calls for a 4-1/4” x 8-1/2” bread pan but you only have 5” x 9” pan. The original amount of dough would bake up fairly flat in the larger pan. The first pan is roughly 36 square inches while the second is 45 square inches or 25% larger. So if we multiply the flour by 1.25 to get a new flour amount and use the bakers percentages to calculate the amounts for the remaining ingredients, we should have dough that bakes up to a nice height in the larger pan.

When I first started baking recipes from Northwest Sourdough, I observed that my dough when first mixed looked much stiffer than Teresa’s did. It finally occurred to me that since I was using different flours than she uses, my flour was probably absorbing more water than the flour she uses. I started adding extra water a few grams at a time until I got a dough that looked the the dough in the videos. I had much better results from then on. So now I know that if I’m going to make a new recipe from one of her courses that I need to add a couple extra percent of water.

That’s enough rambling for this post. I need to get working on a formula for this weeks bread.